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#21 Candy with Strangers

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 11:23 AM

He did refer to it all as a "philosophy" rather than a religion, so maybe he's not following too strictly. But again, that's just an assumption.

 

I think that's a wishful-thinking stretch. The CoS describes itself as "an applied religious philosophy." He's using their term.


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#22 tropicalia

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 11:43 AM

What I meant about his mother and brother is that if their departure is official and according to CoS regulations (or teachings or whatever they are) he has to cut ties with people he knows have left the cult, then it may make things a bit difficult for him.

 

All I wish is for him to be comfortable in his situation, whatever it is. We don't know if it's true or not that he wanted out as the email in question maintained - somehow it would not seem the case - and it would be awful to think that he felt trapped or that he is being prevented in any way to stay in touch with the people he loves.


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#23 Mobius

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:03 PM

I noticed on Marissa's Instagram a few months ago there's a photo with their kids around a menorah, and she said something about them saying a prayer? Didn't really know what to make of it (and I know little of Judaism), but I'm sure the CoS isn't happy, as it appears they're raising their kids in the Jewish faith. And I know information about Beck's upbringing is somewhat contradictory and no one really knows for sure, but I seem to recall him saying that he was brought up in a Jewish atmosphere. I do try to not look into these kinds of matters too deeply, though, as it is his private life, but it is somewhat interesting. 



#24 tropicalia

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 04:10 PM

It is interesting when it's considered from the point of view of cultural influences. He has been exposed to such an array of cultures and traditions, from Judaism, to the Christian faith of his paternal grandparents, the Mexican links with his stepfather's family and the Italian origins of his wife's, not to mention the European flair offered by his maternal grandfather, and the multicultural environment of his childhood and teenage years. Scientology appears to be just one piece of the fascinating puzzle that is Beck.


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#25 Candy with Strangers

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 07:52 AM

I noticed on Marissa's Instagram a few months ago there's a photo with their kids around a menorah, and she said something about them saying a prayer? Didn't really know what to make of it (and I know little of Judaism), but I'm sure the CoS isn't happy, as it appears they're raising their kids in the Jewish faith. And I know information about Beck's upbringing is somewhat contradictory and no one really knows for sure, but I seem to recall him saying that he was brought up in a Jewish atmosphere. I do try to not look into these kinds of matters too deeply, though, as it is his private life, but it is somewhat interesting. 

In the late '90s he started mentioning the Jewish thing. Funny that it was around then that he got back into Scientology....

Anyway, it's entirely possible to be a Scientologist and practice Jewish traditions. They're not mutually exclusive. But from what I've heard, the more you get into Scientology, the less you approach Judaism as a religion--it's more like a cultural-heritage thing.


Edited by Candy with Strangers, 04 April 2014 - 12:39 PM.

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#26 tropicalia

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 08:49 AM

As for Judaism... it is more than a religion for Jews, even those that have lost touch with practices and faith. There's a sense of belonging and roots that goes deeper. That is also partly true of religions like Catholicism, for example - I was raised a Catholic, so I know how strong the cultural ties are.


Edited by Candy with Strangers, 04 April 2014 - 12:36 PM.
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#27 Adze

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 05:58 PM

"Scientology claims 10 million members worldwide."

 

Huh. TIL.

Honestly didn't know it was that big. You only really ever hear about Scientology in the States.

ALSO I never knew that Duncan e-mailed a friend about that and the friend leaked it. I always thought she talked to the newspaper about it herself. (It's a good time to note that I've only read the article on Beck and Scientology which paints the situation in another, more negative light.)



#28 tropicalia

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 07:01 PM

I suspect numbers may be a bit inflated, though they do have members in various parts of the world. It is interesting to note that Scientology doesn't get recognition as a religion everywhere. It is still considered just a cult in many European countries; in some, like France, it's still vehemently opposed.


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#29 mellow

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 08:17 PM

it would seem he's not super in deep into it (and that it's possible not to be?)

 

i've heard from reading this topic that it's still possible to be a member and be more lax about it (have other beliefs etc. idk what the point is then but that's another subject. my mind is like it's that gym membership you never use but do have, you keep it in your pocket and eat burgers instead. then if you're caught idk what happens. im rambling. anyway).

 

from what i've read and seen i would have to guess beck would be in that boat.

 

he doesn't talk about it nor promo it.

 

(i firgue to unknowning people this wouldn't make alot of sense)

 

as with the cult word being used. that word makes someone think of a member as being a helpless slave to it and idk promoing it or hearing alot of stories about what the member did or what not.

 

but with beck we don't get any of that. to the point to where if we didn't already know he was a member.

we wouldn't have guessed. then of course many years back people knew even less and the subject would rarely ever even come up at all.

 

idk i'll just stop there.

i'm just saying.

 

:Whistling:


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#30 Candy with Strangers

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 08:23 PM

"Scientology claims 10 million members worldwide."

 

Huh. TIL.

Honestly didn't know it was that big. You only really ever hear about Scientology in the States.

ALSO I never knew that Duncan e-mailed a friend about that and the friend leaked it. I always thought she talked to the newspaper about it herself. (It's a good time to note that I've only read the article on Beck and Scientology which paints the situation in another, more negative light.)

Note the word "claims." Ex-members who were high up and had access to figures say that there is no way there are that many active members. It's a fraction of that. Reports from the different locations say membership has been dwindling for years and course rooms that used to be full of people are often empty. Yet every time the CoS has a chance to say how many members there are, the number goes up!

There could be 10 million people who have bought a book from them or taken the personality test or got on a mailing list they could never get off of.


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#31 Candy with Strangers

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 08:39 PM

it would seem he's not super in deep into it (and that it's possible not to be?)

 

i've heard from reading this topic that it's still possible to be a member and be more lax about it (have other beliefs etc. idk what the point is then but that's another subject. my mind is like it's that gym membership you never use but do have, you keep it in your pocket and eat burgers instead. then if you're caught idk what happens. im rambling. anyway).

 

from what i've read and seen i would have to guess beck would be in that boat.

 

he doesn't talk about it nor promo it.

 

(i firgue to unknowning people this wouldn't make alot of sense)

 

as with the cult word being used. that word makes someone think of a member as being a helpless slave to it and idk promoing it or hearing alot of stories about what the member did or what not.

 

but with beck we don't get any of that. to the point to where if we didn't already know he was a member.

we wouldn't have guessed. then of course many years back people knew even less and the subject would rarely ever even come up at all.

 

 

 

It would be almost impossible for people who don't know him personally to say how much he's into it or how much he isn't (unless they know someone who knows him or someone who works at Celebrity Centre). There are celebrities who don't talk about it much but are still very dedicated to Scientology. It depends on the individual. And those who rarely talk about it may be avoiding it because they know there is a lot of anti-Scientology criticism. Beck didn't talk about it for years, and would even refuse to answer questions about it, back in the early 2000s. But it was getting to be an open secret so I guess he decided to start answering questions.

There were signs a few years ago that he was very involved, in terms of progressing up the "Bridge." (That was reported in an Italian interview--he seems to speak more freely to Italian reporters!) But I haven't seen any reports about it since then. Could be he stopped moving up, or could be it just hasn't been reported. No news is just that--no news.


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#32 tropicalia

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:35 AM

Interesting about him talking more freely to Italian press - I'm Italian btw. Maybe he feels some connection with the culture with Marissa's family being of Italian origins? Or maybe he feels there's less of a backlash than with other European countries (Italy is one of the states that gave Scientology "religion status" of sort)?

 

As for him being "involved"... I have a feeling that his involvement has increased since he got with Marissa who seems to be very into it - she has a website dedicated to Scientology. He has been reported as a donor. But whatever his involvement or status, he doesn't seem to hammer people over the head with it, keeping it a relatively private issue, and for this I think he should be respected and left alone.


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#33 mellow

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:03 PM

all we have to really go on is what he says himself or even what others might say (and take any of that with a grain of salt to, i suppose)

 

that's all i can go on either. i have no inside knowledge other than that. i can only base anything on what he says or acts.

 

but that's me.

 

imo i can see that others base their thoughts on the issue with having much less knowledge on beck.

or even a different spin.

 

it could just go in circles all day.

you could just say nobody is a credable source (not even beck himself)

and at that point. with next to nothing to go on. you really form your own thoughts about it.

 

 

really tho beck is amazing and always has been and it's a shame any of this would be a black eye on his music. and none of this has anything to do with his music. and even further i think very high of him. this shouldn't be a glass ceiling for him (i.e. holding him back. and with beck alot of things have aside from this imo, which is a whole other topic).

 

it doesn't bug me (it kinda bugs me that it does bug others. tho yea what can you do, sure. and if it wasn't this it would be something else and it would)

 

i dont know everything about cos. i know some. everything i've read here. then again some stuff doesn't line up (not just here just overall)

 

i've also heard that members can't do charity events (OR maybe just certain ones IDK. i heard that once)

and that made me wonder since beck has done quite a few charity events concerts over the years.

 

in the past this topic has kinda been uneasy to talk about but idk everybody here seems calm about it (so far anyway)


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#34 tropicalia

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 03:01 PM

I don't know him, but he comes across as a genuine, funny guy and a nice person. And he's obviously very talented... so what does it matter what he believes? As I said before, for me it all comes down to how people behave and treat others. What they believe is important only if their beliefs make them prejudicial or, worse, abusive. Scientology is controversial and will always attract criticism and therefore anyone affiliated with it will also be open to that kind of scrutiny. I'm sure Beck is aware of that. But that goes for other faiths that have been engulfed in scandals and less than savoury situations. it doesn't make every faithful a bad person.


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#35 tropicalia

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:23 AM

Going back to the piece about Beck on lermanet... I have to say I found it rather disturbing and creepy. The guy went to great lengths in painting a portrait of Beck that was based purely on his perceptions and knowledge acquired through articles and interviews. At one point he even tells perspective interviewers to bear in mind that - as he left school at 15-16 - Beck is not "very educated". Was he implying that Beck's intelligence is limited and it would be easy to take him on, on the topic of Scientology? Beck may not have had a conventional education, but he's far from unintelligent and has educated himself in many areas, he's quite articulate and astute. In all, the piece is really patronizing and doesn't do this guy and his cause (exposing Scientology) any favour. Bringing an organization to account is one thing, attacking individuals purely because of their beliefs in this manner quite another.


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#36 Candy with Strangers

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:38 PM

Going back to the piece about Beck on lermanet... I have to say I found it rather disturbing and creepy. The guy went to great lengths in painting a portrait of Beck that was based purely on his perceptions and knowledge acquired through articles and interviews. At one point he even tells perspective interviewers to bear in mind that - as he left school at 15-16 - Beck is not "very educated". Was he implying that Beck's intelligence is limited and it would be easy to take him on, on the topic of Scientology? Beck may not have had a conventional education, but he's far from unintelligent and has educated himself in many areas, he's quite articulate and astute. In all, the piece is really patronizing and doesn't do this guy and his cause (exposing Scientology) any favour. Bringing an organization to account is one thing, attacking individuals purely because of their beliefs in this manner quite another.

I agree, that article is very flawed. The writer makes assumptions about all Scientologists that aren't necessarily true. And it has an overly alarmist tone. (I'd say more but it's been years since I read it.)


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#37 tropicalia

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 07:21 PM

Funnily enough, I came across this quote by Nigel Godrich on his first impression of Beck

 

He's very quiet and studied and obviously very intelligent. I thought he'd be a bit more aggressive and loud. All the kind of rap stuff on Odelay is pretty aggressive, but he's quite cerebral.

 

Which goes to show how easy it is to form the wrong idea and misjudge people when relying on public image and perception.


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#38 Candy with Strangers

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 06:34 AM

Funnily enough, I came across this quote by Nigel Godrich on his first impression of Beck

 

He's very quiet and studied and obviously very intelligent. I thought he'd be a bit more aggressive and loud. All the kind of rap stuff on Odelay is pretty aggressive, but he's quite cerebral.

 

Which goes to show how easy it is to form the wrong idea and misjudge people when relying on public image and perception.

It's definitely really easy. Over the years I've seen so many fans make assumptions about what Beck would do, what Beck would believe, what Beck would wear, what kind of car Beck would drive, etc. (I'm not excluding myself from that, cos I've been guilty of it too.) 


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#39 tropicalia

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:26 AM

It's easy to invest people we admire with aspects that we find appealing. I'm always attracted by intellectual and arty people, but I also like a good sense of humour and the ability of not taking oneself too seriously, so I have attached those qualities to my perception of Beck. I may be off the mark, of course.


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#40 Candy with Strangers

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:52 AM

It's easy to invest people we admire with aspects that we find appealing. I'm always attracted by intellectual and arty people, but I also like a good sense of humour and the ability of not taking oneself too seriously, so I have attached those qualities to my perception of Beck. I may be off the mark, of course.

 

Once, some years back, I realized I had unconsciously made a lot of assumptions about Beck. Nothing really crazy, just things like he was kind to animals, was liberal, not greedy--basically, that he shared my values! And I couldn't imagine him wearing designer clothes or driving a BMW. It was silly. I DID NOT KNOW HIM. Chances are I'd guessed right on a few of them. But it was really good to realize how much of my idea of "Beck" was my own creation.


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